The Ezra Klein Show Podcast: How Fear Deforms Our Politics

Vox's Ezra Klein interviews philosopher Martha Nussbaum, known for her focus on emotions, about her new book The Monarchy of Fear. This is the parting point of an insightful conversation that discusses not only fear, but also anger, compassion, disgust. It's a lesson in history, philosophy, psychology and politics that explores Aristotle, Martin Luther King and, of course, Donald Trump. It's fascinating to learn how emotions shape our public life, how politicians use them, and how knowing what we feel is essential for political action and democracy.

In one of the segments of the interview, Klein asks Nussbaum about the resurgence of Stoicism, so popular amongst the Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and tech leaders who also seem to feed on Zen Buddhism and have a mistrust for emotionality. Nussbaum, known for her rationality in her approach to emotions, is not a stoic. She believes there is danger in emotional detachment. The key is not to get rid of these feelings but to get to know them, to focus on self examination in learning what is reasonable or not to fear or be angry about so we can manage them.

Emotions are not neutral. They have ideas and thoughts attached to them. Politicians know this, and that's how they manipulate the public. We often hear about the negative examples, but Nussbaum mentions two very different cases: how FD Roosevelt used photography, art and the media to stir feelings of compassion for his New Deal, and how Martin Luther King used rhetoric and instruction to curb feelings of revenge and anger into more disciplined and peaceful action.

The entire interview — almost an hour — is an intelligent exchange, filled with examples, anecdotes and reflections that go deep into the human condition and the way it shapes our political attitudes.